Wednesday, 7 January 2009

We're living in the history books now. All of us.

What are you doing about it?

Donate to UNRWA and write to your local MP calling for an arms embargo on Israel.

10 comments:

Andromeda said...

http://www.1party4all.co.uk/Home/Account/TopicForm.aspx?topicsId=127

may be of interest to you - it proposes the replacement of the thought-crime concept of Holocaust Denial.

skydog said...

Perhaps you should also campaign for an arms embargo on Hamas?

skydog said...

@Andromeda

Whilst anyone should be free to harbour the concept of Holocaust denial (as everyone is free to deny the existence of God but that's another matter if you live in certain countries and could be seriously detrimental to you existence) the link you posted contains some highly risible propositions.

whypatcondellisntfunny said...

@skydog. Erm. Didn't you notice that there is an embargo upon the whole of the Gaza Strip thanks to the blockade by both Israel and Egypt?

That blockade may have been 'eased' lately, but I'm pretty sure that Hamas isn't taking delivery of any drones, fighter jets, apache helicopters, or tanks or missiles of any nature.

Given that there is already an effective embargo upon Gaza, Hamas has turned to building 'home-made' missiles which contain no guidance system, have a limited range, and very rarely actually kill anyone. This is in stark contrast indeed to the high-tech weaponry which Israel has access to - much of it free of charge - from America and the UK. Weaponry which they use both to pulverise Gaza as publicly as possible and discretely dominate the West Bank.

skydog said...

Good for the Israelis!

When you're surrounded by those who wish to see you exterminated it's a wise precaution to carry a big stick and have the balls to use it.

''and very rarely actually kill anyone''

Yeah very nice of them I'm sure.

whypatcondellisntfunny said...

Skydog, you say that your philosophy is thus:

"When you're surrounded by those who wish to see you exterminated it's a wise precaution to carry a big stick and have the balls to use it."

Well, Israel signed peace treaties with both Israel and Jordan, so the constant claim that Israel is "surrounded" is a fallacy. I'd imagine that is annoys the hell out of the Governments in both Israel and Jordan to keep being identified as supposed enemies of Israel when in fact they have made peace.

But you don't care about that, do you?

Hamas - let us not forget that they were democratically elected just as the Israeli government was - is "surrounded" by Israel, by Egypt (in cahoots with Israel as per the peace treaty they signed and the money flowing from the US keeps the agreement sweet) and by Fatah, all of whom are acting in concert to squeeze Hamas out.

Is it not "wise" for Hamas to "carry a big stick" and to also "have the balls to use it", are they not following the very same principles you espouse?

I should imagine that if Israel withdrew from its illegal occupation of the Golan Heights, diplomatic relations with Syria might improve.

And, here is a thought from right out of left field, if Israel stopped illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank, and came to a just and honest peace with the Palestinians, then relations with Lebanon and Iran might also improve.

Israel complying with international law does not appear to enter your personal narrative on the situation, however it might solve some of the problems that Israel faces.

Perhaps you think Israel is above the law?

The fact that you did not know that there was an effective embargo upon Hamas demonstrates either a deep ignorance on your behalf, or else a deliberate obfuscation of the facts. Which is it?

Further, whilst I abhor any deliberate targeting of civilians, there is a world of difference between the state of Israel punishing an entire population by blockading them, and then deliberately pummelling them with the most high-tech weaponry available to mankind, and the firing of mostly harmless home-made rocket. The difference in kill rates between the Israeli army and the Palestinian forces tells the story.

If you want justice then you should be calling for both Israel and Hamas to be held accountable for any potential war crimes they have committed. But I suspect you are not interested in justice. Just the domination of one people of another in the pursuit of land.

whypatcondellisntfunny said...

Oops. Israel of course signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, so it would be those governments peeved that they are constantly referred to as enemies of Israel.

And it is Egypt, Israel and Fatah working in concert to squeeze Hamas out.

skydog said...

''I should imagine that if Israel withdrew from its illegal occupation of the Golan Heights, diplomatic relations with Syria might improve.''

Dream on.

''I'd imagine that is annoys the hell out of the Governments in both Israel and Jordan to keep being identified as supposed enemies of Israel when in fact they have made peace.''

Yeah they've done this several times, each time after they'd been soundly defeated by the Israelis. Until the next time then eh? You see those countries surrounding Israel who wo like to see the Jews pushed into the Med. can go at it as many times as they like. Israel cannot afford to lose even once as they understand the historical consequences.

whypatcondellisntfunny said...

"Dream on."

So you concede that you are interested not in any form of justice or rule of law in the Middle East, just the domination by Israel of the area?

By avoiding my questions about carrying a "big stick" you implicitly highlight your own double standards.

By droning on about "historical consequences" you explicitly reveal that you are not interested in the "historical consequences" of the land of Israel - over 20% of whom are not Jewish and over 67% did not suffer through the holocaust as they were born in Israel - illegally occupying the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. I guess the "historical consequences" of ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their legally held land is of no consequence to you.

You appear to care more about a Holocaust which has passed, and which no Palestinian can do anything about, than the holocaust that is being slowly enacted by the State of Israel against the Palestinians.

Note. I'm not trying to compare numbers of dead. That would be crass. But it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that Israel has killed thousands upon thousands of Palestinians.

I prefer to stand up for the rights of a people who are currently under illegal occupation, than to shield the conscience of living Israelis who were never part of the Holocaust and whose country has been partially built upon German reparations for the Holocaust which their parents or grandparents suffered, and which they are in no danger of experiencing - they are the only nuclear power in the Middle East, are they not?

Israel is a fact of life and Israelis will never be "pushed into the sea", since we both agree that they are militarily superior in the region. The only reason to pretend otherwise is to capitalise upon the sympathy of others ill-informed about the situation between Israel and the Palestinians.

You are out of your league here. Your world view does not tally with the actual facts and you are compounding error upon error. I'm enjoying highlighting your clear bias and factual errors to other readers.

skydog said...

''I guess the "historical consequences" of ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their legally held land is of no consequence to you.''

Bleeding-heart bullshit. At the inception of the STATE OF ISRAEL in 1948 the Israelis begged the 'Palestinians' (sic) to stay and be part of the nascent country. Why did they up sticks and decamp do you think?

''if Israel stopped illegally occupying Gaza''

They aren't occupying Gaza or don't you read the news?

''But it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that Israel has killed thousands upon thousands of Palestinians.''


You're the one being crass. Israel has a perfect right of self-defence or don't you concede that?

''You appear to care more about a Holocaust which has passed, and which no Palestinian can do anything about''

I'm sure the Palestinians are looking forward to creating the next holocaust should they get the chance. Not going to happen.